Bardic Circle

Syrius

Well-known member
Valkyrie from The Sonoran Desert
Pronouns: she/her
Posts: 2,371
"Just moving forward with steel in my spine and glitter in the air!"
I did 8k on the last night/day of NaNo the first time I made it over the finish line. It was during uni, so I had been balancing classes, working, and homework. I was bound and determined to finish NaNo for myself, so I stayed up late and I got through it with only an hour to spare. I don't remember doing so high a count in quite some time, probably because it is tiring.
 

TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,404
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
I find it much easier to write a lot when I'm typing because it's easier, faster, and I don't bother limiting myself as I do when I actually have to form each individual letter with a pen. And what I'm doing now - having to enter the day's writing on the computer just to get an accurate word count - is a bit of a drain, especially of the fun, and once this month is over, I'll stop doing that.
But I wish I hadn't made that suggestion this morning because all day all I've been thinking about it doing a full book in three weeks, including prep. With certain genres it would probably be easier than others, but it could be an interesting challenge. Unfortunately, it took some focus away from what I should have been focusing on today - can't focus on two things at one time.
You know, some people say that they can tell AI writing simply by the presence of the m-dash, but I've always loved them. I wonder if I'd be mistaken for an AI!
 
Rogue from Avenger's Tower
Pronouns: she/her ✡
Posts: 599
"Some things are worth rebuilding, like love sometimes. Some things are best left broken, like hearts sometimes. Growing up is knowing when to hold on, and knowing when its time to let go."

Moderator
Hi everyone!!! I been invited, so I'm showing up to say hi and introduce myself and my current writing project.

I'm currently working on a bit of a unique project (I think). I'm transcribing diary entries and text conversations and writing original letters to various people who shaped my life and my understanding of myself. I'm then going to try to knit the pieces together into a coherent narrative. The intention is to create a story about what it's like growing up queer in an Orthodox Jewish community; the expectations and definitions (or lack thereof) that limited me from a young age, and how I learned that my love might not fit into easy, labelled boxes but it's sweet and fierce and reckless and forgiving - and I've never met a single soul who didn't want it.

It's hard to keep track of the total word count because everything is separated into different documents currently, but I'll try to post regular updates. Right now I'm probably at about ten thousand words, total. Only upwards from here.

And hi again, and thanks for the invite(s)!!!

@Laura Rainbow Dragon @TopNotch @Syrius
 
Rogue from Avenger's Tower
Pronouns: she/her ✡
Posts: 599
"Some things are worth rebuilding, like love sometimes. Some things are best left broken, like hearts sometimes. Growing up is knowing when to hold on, and knowing when its time to let go."

Moderator

TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,404
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
So, here's my work space:
20251125_120714.jpg

The biscuits were a treat today but the tea's always there. The first full notebook for this story is on the left, the current (almost full one) waiting for me to do something with. Dictionary and thesaurus (my mum gave them to me for Christmas when I was a teenager. Yeah, guess I've always been a bit weird) ready to hand. Bag of used pens on the floor because the stationery shop I use actually recycles them! And on the floor behind the chair is the cat's bed because she keeps jumping on the table and rubbing against my face and I have to throw her somewhere.
What's yours look like? Do you have a dedicated space? A vast room, all thick carpet, mahogany furniture, dark red velvet drapes, crackling fire? Or do you grab the end of the dining table once everyone's done? Perhaps you drop down into any old chair with your laptop or notebook, or maybe you're the sort that loves occupying a corner in a coffee shop and watching people go by.
 

Syrius

Well-known member
Valkyrie from The Sonoran Desert
Pronouns: she/her
Posts: 2,371
"Just moving forward with steel in my spine and glitter in the air!"
My work space is a mess most of the time. I mostly write (type) at my computer desk. Otherwise it's in my notebook at my work desk or my laptop at my in laws or in the car.

The blanket is down for the cats. Usually it's Apollo on my desk. I specifically designed my set up on my desk so there would be space for the cat.
 

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Sólveig

Well-known member
Pirate from Cabudare - Venezuela
Pronouns: She/Her
Posts: 3,421
"ᚨ Ars longa, vita brevis"
50692 words reached before midnight last night. I'm here for cake, and also, I think this will be the year in which I'll Platinum NaNoWriMo. Like, seriously, the only badge that I have missing from this project is writing "The End" because I'm not at the ending of the story. I'm at the climax though, so the end is near. Finishing Rescue from Without, and will start the last three stages to finish everything this week: Crossing the Return Threshold, Master of Two Worlds, and Freedom to Live.

Write WIth Another Person doesn't count because I write alone, always.
 

Syrius

Well-known member
Valkyrie from The Sonoran Desert
Pronouns: she/her
Posts: 2,371
"Just moving forward with steel in my spine and glitter in the air!"
Congrats @Sólveig!!! I am probably not platinum this year - no character death yet (I came close once at the beginning) and no break-up, unless a story about a break-up counts. :LOL: And I have definitely not written The End yet either. I also don't write with other people. Other people in the room, sure, but at the same time as another person in the room with me, nope.
 

TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,404
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
Well done, @Sólveig! I'd never get a "first kiss" (I don't do that sort of story) and I haven't got to the (first) killing yet, though I've had a few beatings and hospitalisations. I guess I had a break-up and a betrayal at the same time. Similarly, as the two of you, I'm nowhere near penning "The End". Actually, as always, once I hit that 50,000 mark I slow down, start living life again, though I continue writing. Got to reach that end eventually!
 

Sólveig

Well-known member
Pirate from Cabudare - Venezuela
Pronouns: She/Her
Posts: 3,421
"ᚨ Ars longa, vita brevis"
MASTER OF TWO WORLDS! I've reached 53013 words, and I'm finally two stages away to finish the novel! I just finished the Crossing of the Return Threshold, and for tomorrow I'll begin with Master of Two Worlds, and probably crunch it all the way down towards Freedom to Live, putting a close to NaNo for this year!
 

astro_lizard

Well-known member
Druid from Georgia (USA)
Posts: 1,268
Starting my new job has put me further behind, but I am still chugging along!

I think I'm going to set a goal of having the 50k done by the 15th of December. I am loving writing again, even if its going a little slower than I was hoping.

I think setting a goal of 30k words per month for the first half of 2026 sounds really fun. I really like having a goal to work towards and I think that would help me continue with the habit of writing.
 

TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,404
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
I think setting a goal of 30k words per month for the first half of 2026 sounds really fun
I like the idea of such a goal, but how would you work in editing or re-writes? Or, if you do it, plotting? I find that sometimes I can spend hours working on editing and actually end up with fewer words than when I began. For me, I think it might work if I set a word goal until the story was finished (and after the plotting and research), then moved to a more @Laura Rainbow Dragon style, changing to hours worked.
Different ways work for different people with different styles, responsibilities and goal, and I love hearing about all of them. There's often some little nuance I haven't considered.
 

astro_lizard

Well-known member
Druid from Georgia (USA)
Posts: 1,268
@TopNotch To be honest I hadn't thought that far ahead. It's been so long since I've had anything to edit that I haven't thought about that. I'm hoping I'll be able to do the 30k and edit. For the first few months of the new year I'll be editing my NaNo work. I've done 0 editing for that story so far and I have a lot of notes in the margins/everywhere. That'll take me a while.

I'm hoping that my routine becomes: write my 30k per month for project B while editing project A. Once I'm done editing/rewritting A, hopefully project B will be done and then will move into the editing phase while I do project C.

Or, I may write for project A, hit my word count for the day, and then do edits for project A.

In the past I've been someone who over-edits the current project, which is why I have loved doing NaNo in the past. It shuts up my inner critic and I don't have to edit for a month. Once I leave NaNo though I'll probably be tempted to edit more frequently.

Either way, writing ~1k a day while editing should be doable. I may do 2k one day, then edit the next, and so forth. Or I'll find that I need to lower my monthly goal to 20k.

I'll cross those bridges as I get to them :D
 

TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,404
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
I'm playing with the idea of writing a very different story from my usual sort. A kind of domestic drama, so no beatings or gunfights, no explosions or kidnappings; rather tame really, now I think of it.
Anyway, part of me is thinking about posting a sort of brief outline here, see what you think about it. It wouldn't be the sort of story my mum would want to read so no point asking her about it. Fancy thinking about writing a story even your mum wouldn't read!
 
Bard from Canada
Posts: 4,581
"Striving to be the change."

Moderator
Fancy thinking about writing a story even your mum wouldn't read!
I wrote stories I hoped my mother wouldn't read. And published them.
My father found the stories and bought them. Then, because he could no longer see well enough to read the stories himself, he got my mother to read them to him!
 

WolfDreamer

Well-known member
Ranger from West Virginia, United States
Pronouns: he/him
Posts: 320
"respawinning"
I wrote stories I hoped my mother wouldn't read. And published them.
My father found the stories and bought them. Then, because he could no longer see well enough to read the stories himself, he got my mother to read them to him!

That's incredible.
 
Bard from Canada
Posts: 4,581
"Striving to be the change."

Moderator
That's incredible.
Hmm. My mother never said anything to me about those stories. So I've no idea what she thought of them.

My father reviewed them though. Because Amazon sent him an email asking him to review them! So he did. And then they sent me a nasty email threatening to permanently revoke my right to publish anything on their platform ever because someone from my own household had reviewed my works.
 

Sólveig

Well-known member
Pirate from Cabudare - Venezuela
Pronouns: She/Her
Posts: 3,421
"ᚨ Ars longa, vita brevis"
I'm playing with the idea of writing a very different story from my usual sort. A kind of domestic drama, so no beatings or gunfights, no explosions or kidnappings; rather tame really, now I think of it.
Anyway, part of me is thinking about posting a sort of brief outline here, see what you think about it. It wouldn't be the sort of story my mum would want to read so no point asking her about it. Fancy thinking about writing a story even your mum wouldn't read!

Drama can be fun to write. I think JSB did a cool example on how to make a bit of conversation interesting by turning it into a couples' dispute on how to write pulp fiction. It wasn't at all violent, but it did end up being one heck of an entertaining exchange.

Hmm. My mother never said anything to me about those stories. So I've no idea what she thought of them.

My father reviewed them though. Because Amazon sent him an email asking him to review them! So he did. And then they sent me a nasty email threatening to permanently revoke my right to publish anything on their platform ever because someone from my own household had reviewed my works.

I don't know, but I had the image of this Venezuelan stand-up comic interacting with his audience and finding out he had an OF model among them. When she said the family were the first to learn she had an OF, he outright said "yes, of course, those are the first customers," I couldn't stop laughing about.

Come on, Amazon! Family is the first customer!

I guess they do have something on their TOS against family purchasing your things though. Nevertheless, how would they expect to know that someone you know would purchase your book?

In my case some people I know are aware that I write erotica. My mom was the first to find out, and she was fine with it. I knew she was going to be because I remember that she told me I could escort back in Ecuador if I got there because that was a job possibility. She met a male escort who was a friend of my brother back when she went there.
 
Bard from Canada
Posts: 4,581
"Striving to be the change."

Moderator
I guess they do have something on their TOS against family purchasing your things though.
They do not have a rule against family members purchasing an author's books. They'll sell anything to anyone. They don't give a flying rats arse who you are. They have a rule against family members leaving reviews of an author's books. But how was my father to know that when they frakking asked him to leave the review?!

I didn't ask him to review my stuff.
I didn't ask him to buy my stuff either.
(In fact, I was mad that he did. Amazon takes 65% of the money for an ebook sale. So he just gave away money to Amazon for nothing. I could have just given him the books!)

Threatening to ban me because a person I happen to be related to did something I did not ask him to do, but Amazon did ask him to do was wildly inappropriate. And pretty evil, truthfully. Amazon represents ~ 80% of the ebook market. An indie author cannot survive without them. And I didn't do anything at all! They literally threatened to ban me for an act which I had no part in whatsoever. None. Nadda. Zilch. I didn't even know about it until I received the threatening letter!
 

PetiteSheWolf

Well-known member
Alchemist from France
Posts: 2,907
I thought all mums were duty-bound to read all your stuff and say "That was lovely, darling" and then quickly change the subject before you could ask her which bit she particularly liked!
Uh ... Definitly wouldn't be the case with mine. She'd hand me Hugo, Dumas or whoever and state loudly "now THAT is litterature".
(I adore my mom, she is my no.1 supporter when dirt hits the fan, but no.1 fan ? Definitly not.)
 

Sólveig

Well-known member
Pirate from Cabudare - Venezuela
Pronouns: She/Her
Posts: 3,421
"ᚨ Ars longa, vita brevis"
They do not have a rule against family members purchasing an author's books. They'll sell anything to anyone. They don't give a flying rats arse who you are. They have a rule against family members leaving reviews of an author's books. But how was my father to know that when they frakking asked him to leave the review?!

I didn't ask him to review my stuff.
I didn't ask him to buy my stuff either.
(In fact, I was mad that he did. Amazon takes 65% of the money for an ebook sale. So he just gave away money to Amazon for nothing. I could have just given him the books!)

Threatening to ban me because a person I happen to be related to did something I did not ask him to do, but Amazon did ask him to do was wildly inappropriate. And pretty evil, truthfully. Amazon represents ~ 80% of the ebook market. An indie author cannot survive without them. And I didn't do anything at all! They literally threatened to ban me for an act which I had no part in whatsoever. None. Nadda. Zilch. I didn't even know about it until I received the threatening letter!

I'm going to leave a review to Amazon of -50/5 stars, because this is beyond f*cked up.
 
Rogue from Avenger's Tower
Pronouns: she/her ✡
Posts: 599
"Some things are worth rebuilding, like love sometimes. Some things are best left broken, like hearts sometimes. Growing up is knowing when to hold on, and knowing when its time to let go."

Moderator
I'm back!!!

60,000 WORDS AND 275 PAGES!!!

My story is not quite what I thought it was. But it's a pretty damn good one.
 
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TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,404
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
I watched a YouTube video this morning on how to determine if a book idea was good, and the first test was the Dinner Table test - in one sentence, describe the proposed book as though it were a book you had recently read, and see what others think of the premise, whether or not they find it interesting, or worth reading themselves. So here is mine:

A man finds himself increasingly sidelined within his own family, his actions questioned and motives deliberately misinterpreted by the wife he had loved, until he belatedly recognises the defamatory version of himself presented to the world—one he has no power to challenge.

What do you think? It's hard to encapsulate a novel in one sentence, isn't it? I know that you can argue that all ideas are 'good' (though I've had some rather questionable ones!), but would anyone here read this sort of novel?
I'm actually going to be brave and not delete this post. I'm going to let my question stand and accept any criticism with an open mind.
 

TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,404
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
For you, then, @PetiteSheWolf I shall provide some answers. Here is a longer description:

This is a novel about a man who is steadily pushed to the margins of his own family by his wife’s escalating attempts to control him, and, when those fail, by her deliberate campaign to destroy him. Tal devotes himself to his children, explaining their mother’s behaviour in rational, charitable terms so they can live with it, never contradicting her and never speaking against her. Bridget, by contrast, presents a false version of him to others, through selective examples, confident narration, and outright lies. She tells professionals that he is a narcissist, neighbours that he is neglectful and emotionally cold, and supplies ‘evidence’ to support these claims. By the time Tal becomes aware of Bridget’s calculated effort to destroy him, it is too late - his reputation has been shattered. Friendships are gone, professionals regard him with suspicion, and anything he says or does is read as further confirmation of the person he has been accused of being. His mental and physical health deteriorate, he is left without support, and he is told that his presence is the source of the family’s dysfunction. When he finally leaves, it is not abandonment of his children, interpreted by outsiders as neglect, but a hard choice forced upon him. Bridget’s relentless attacks would cease, yet he must rebuild his life alone, separated from the children he loves.
 
Bard from Canada
Posts: 4,581
"Striving to be the change."

Moderator
A man finds himself increasingly sidelined within his own family, his actions questioned and motives deliberately misinterpreted by the wife he had loved, until he belatedly recognises the defamatory version of himself presented to the world—one he has no power to challenge.
I think the first half of this is good. But the second half is defeatist and suggests the novel will be about a guy being all maudlin because his wife did him wrong.

I like protagonists who actively try to solve whatever problem they are faced with. Something like:

A man finds himself increasingly sidelined within his own family, his behaviour questioned and motives deliberately misinterpreted by the wife he had loved, and must take action to reclaim his true identity before all is lost.

You can come up with better words that more specifically fit your story. But something like that.

Whether or not the protagonist succeeds in achieving their objective is a matter of personal taste. (This is not a question one answers in the logline, although usually the genre of the work lets us know what to expect.) I personally like protagonists to succeed. I dislike tragedies and don't read them. I want to spend my reading time on hopeful fiction. But this is a matter of personal taste.

I suppose the question of whether or not the main character of a story needs to be proactive is also a matter of personal taste. For me, an MC who is unconscious for the climax of the story is an absolute no. But millions of Twilight fans disagree with me on this point.
 

TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,404
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
@Laura Rainbow Dragon That is a problem indeed, and that makes me question this whole premise - hence these postings. The story, without stating it, is all about coercive control, which is horribly insidious and incredibly challenging to prove. If he had realised and taken action, as you suggest, it wouldn't be a story about cc. This has the potential to be a tragedy, and in a way I think it would be, but the focus is on the MC and his own personal strength. Although initially unaware of what his wife is trying to do, his own strength of character prohibits her from controlling him. He comes across as a good bloke, a good father. One day, he does have an epiphany, recognising Bridget's words and actions are diametrically opposite, and this sets him wondering. Unfortunately, he is more honest and open than his wife. She actively undermines him, not only within the family but outside it too, in arenas of which he is ignorant. Only when she has completely moved from the 'control' phase to the 'destroy' phase does he finally realise exactly what she has done but by that time, the damage is done. Now he must rebuild. He doesn't give up on his children, he is hopeful of a reconciliation, and even though he recognises there is no way that the people who have been influenced by Bridget's words would ever really believe him, there are two (a neighbour who told Tal about the lies Bridget had been spreading around the neighbourhood) and an old friend in a different city. With their support, and his own strong self-belief, enables him to emerge from this situation, damaged but not defeated.
The intention is to have the reader accept what Bridget says, and from time to time wonder why Tal does what he does, and then, around the mid-point, the reader will realise, perhaps even slightly before Tal, exactly what Bridget has been up to. The reader will see the web Bridget has woven and from there move to Tal's side.
It is ambitious and will be difficult to get quite right because it has to be subtle, like coercive control is, with Bridget not being portrayed as an outright villain, nor Tal being seen as utterly naive, which is why I asked if it would be worth spending (quite a lot of) time working on this sort of story.
 
Bard from Canada
Posts: 4,581
"Striving to be the change."

Moderator
Now he must rebuild. He doesn't give up on his children, he is hopeful of a reconciliation, and even though he recognises there is no way that the people who have been influenced by Bridget's words would ever really believe him, there are two (a neighbour who told Tal about the lies Bridget had been spreading around the neighbourhood) and an old friend in a different city. With their support, and his own strong self-belief, enables him to emerge from this situation, damaged but not defeated.
This is your protagonist being proactive right here. It's fine--good, in fact--for him to not realize what is going on in the beginning of the story, and for him to struggle to deal with things early on, and have the bad situation get worse for him as a result.

The intention is to have the reader accept what Bridget says, and from time to time wonder why Tal does what he does, and then, around the mid-point, the reader will realise, perhaps even slightly before Tal, exactly what Bridget has been up to. The reader will see the web Bridget has woven and from there move to Tal's side.
Ah. A psychological thriller. This type of story has certainly been done to both popular and critical acclaim. (I'm thinking of Gone Girl and None of This Is True as some high profile examples.) It's tricky because you're initially setting Bridget up to be the sympathetic character and then pulling the rug out from under the reader re: their expectations. You run the risk that either the reader sympathizes with Bridget too much and doesn't like being later shown she's a villain, or the reader realizes too early that Bridget is a villain and doesn't like your initial attempts to portray her as sympathetic.

It is ambitious and will be difficult to get quite right because it has to be subtle, like coercive control is, with Bridget not being portrayed as an outright villain, nor Tal being seen as utterly naive, which is why I asked if it would be worth spending (quite a lot of) time working on this sort of story.
Right. Authorial insertion, I think, can also be very tricky to do well. On the one hand, you're writing what you know. On the other, there's a danger of being too close to the material to be able to portray it fairly.

This type of story doesn't work for everyone. But the success of Gone Girl and None of This Is True suggest that, when done well, it certainly does work for many. Whether or not it's "worth it" however is more a matter of your personal drive to tell this story than anything else.
 

TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,404
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
My dear @Laura Rainbow Dragon Thank you very much for your comments; I have found them very helpful. I think you’ve put your finger on the real challenge - not whether Tal is passive, but whether the reader’s alignment can be managed without simplifying or stereotyping either character. I’m less interested in a twist than in a gradual recalibration, where the reader realises the problem isn’t misunderstanding but narrative control. I also want to show that this sort of abuse is not confined to the whole "woman as victim" trope, but how societal norms can feed into misbeliefs. If, for example, a woman is called a neglectful mother but the children are clean and fed and go to school, then people don't really believe that, whereas in the same situation, people are willing to accept that the father is neglectful, even if he isn't, because that is more 'typical'.
It's not really a psychological thriller, more a domestic psychological fiction. The trick is not to make this a lesson in psychological abuse but simply a story of a man and his experiences. Now I have to see if I can pull that off! And if I do, perhaps I'll have at least one reader in @PetiteSheWolf !

One other thing that YouTube video said when you're asking if the story idea is good/worth writing, was: at the end of your days, would you wish you had written that book? I would, which is why right now I'm looking for feedback that helps me tighten the work, pinpoints flaws (or potential flaws).

I am glad I summoned the courage to post here. It's not something I'd generally do - open up my raw, unpolished ideas to the world - but I have found value in doing so. Perhaps I'll even do it again some day.
 
Rogue from Avenger's Tower
Pronouns: she/her ✡
Posts: 599
"Some things are worth rebuilding, like love sometimes. Some things are best left broken, like hearts sometimes. Growing up is knowing when to hold on, and knowing when its time to let go."

Moderator
Five hundred pages total 🥺

I reached out to two friends whose absence from my life inspired my book, and told them about it, and they both made up with me and said they wanted to read it when it's ready 🥺❤️
 
Rogue from Avenger's Tower
Pronouns: she/her ✡
Posts: 599
"Some things are worth rebuilding, like love sometimes. Some things are best left broken, like hearts sometimes. Growing up is knowing when to hold on, and knowing when its time to let go."

Moderator
:star: :star: :star: I finished my very first draft of my very first book :star: :star: :star:

It's all chaotic and out of order, so now I'm busy trying to put it all together. I'm maybe a third of the way through the first step of that process, sorting which fragment goes in which chapter. Some chapters are thirty pages, some two or three. We'll see.

I also realized I wrote it using two very different writing styles, so I'm consulting with people what they think, some people said just go for it because the experience itself was chaotic and confusing, some people said there has to be some coherent pattern to when I use which style.

I'm not sure yet. Maybe some map will become clear to me during the editing process.
 
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