Bardic Circle

Mother of Dragons from Avenger's Tower
Pronouns: she/her ✡
Posts: 602
"Some things are worth rebuilding, like love sometimes. Some things are best left broken, like hearts sometimes. Growing up is knowing when to hold on, and knowing when its time to let go."

Moderator
@Princess Sarena Rose I think that when you draw things together into a coherent whole, you will discover which style works best. Get it less chaotic so you can see it clearly, and go from there. Don't bother stressing about that sort of thing at the moment.
Thanks for the tip! Right now I'm sorting through which anecdotes belong in which chapter, and in which order, which is tricky because I don't remember exactly what happened when. While I'm working on that I'm kind of sketching out and rewriting a little, experimenting to see if I can achieve a more consistent writing tone / style, trying to see if I can get better flow and transition between anecdotes, which is more challenging than writing the original draft, and just as much fun.

Sorry I love talking about the writing process, I'll go on all day...
 

TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,415
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
Sorry I love talking about the writing process, I'll go on all day...
No sorry needed. That's what this forum was created for!

What you might try to do is make a brief note of each anecdote you have on an index card. Include the date or time period too. A pile of card with a line or two on each is far less daunting that hundred of pages containing thousands of words. I use blu-tak and stick my cards to a cupboard door. That gives me an easy overview, and it's also very easy to move things around. Again, and again, and again.
Like this:
20260128_221256.jpg

(Yeah, I'm working on writing my scene cards in dot point. That's going to be a challenge for me!)

As far as rewriting is concerned, yes, it can be very tempting, but until you know what you've got and exactly what you want, you might simply be muddying the waters.

As for myself, I happily plotted a death today. Accidental, of course. Or was it...?
 
Mother of Dragons from Avenger's Tower
Pronouns: she/her ✡
Posts: 602
"Some things are worth rebuilding, like love sometimes. Some things are best left broken, like hearts sometimes. Growing up is knowing when to hold on, and knowing when its time to let go."

Moderator
No sorry needed. That's what this forum was created for!

What you might try to do is make a brief note of each anecdote you have on an index card. Include the date or time period too. A pile of card with a line or two on each is far less daunting that hundred of pages containing thousands of words. I use blu-tak and stick my cards to a cupboard door. That gives me an easy overview, and it's also very easy to move things around. Again, and again, and again.
Like this:
View attachment 8658
(Yeah, I'm working on writing my scene cards in dot point. That's going to be a challenge for me!)

As far as rewriting is concerned, yes, it can be very tempting, but until you know what you've got and exactly what you want, you might simply be muddying the waters.

As for myself, I happily plotted a death today. Accidental, of course. Or was it...?
You're a ----ing genius 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯

No but seriously I wanted to print the material out but couldn't really afford it or get to a staples, I'm gonna pick up some supplies ASAP, that's a much cheaper option.

As for the rewriting, I'm really only rewriting when it's blatantly necessary for coherence and flow, like when the original just doesn't quite do what I intended. I'm leaving most of it intact and alone for now.

The heavy editing will come later. It's hard to explain - it's a series of letters to old friends, so at points I realize what's one letter should be two or three, what's two letters should be one, that sort of thing, or that this or that letter should be better addressed to a different person. Little things like that. It's complicated because the number of things that have to fit into place! (No addressee gets two letters in a row, etc etc etc.)

And thank you again, that's still bloody brilliant 🥺
 

Syrius

Well-known member
Valkyrie from The Sonoran Desert
Pronouns: she/her
Posts: 2,373
"Just moving forward with steel in my spine and glitter in the air!"
No sorry needed. That's what this forum was created for!

What you might try to do is make a brief note of each anecdote you have on an index card. Include the date or time period too. A pile of card with a line or two on each is far less daunting that hundred of pages containing thousands of words. I use blu-tak and stick my cards to a cupboard door. That gives me an easy overview, and it's also very easy to move things around. Again, and again, and again.
Like this:
View attachment 8658
(Yeah, I'm working on writing my scene cards in dot point. That's going to be a challenge for me!)

As far as rewriting is concerned, yes, it can be very tempting, but until you know what you've got and exactly what you want, you might simply be muddying the waters.

As for myself, I happily plotted a death today. Accidental, of course. Or was it...?

I'm totally going to piggyback off the editing conversation here. Sorry.

This is genius. This is giving me (a certified panster) the sweats thinking about writing a story this way, but this looks like a good way for me to start analyzing my book for editing. Take each scene, writing the main beat of the scene, and making sure that that scene was necessary for the plot.

I will take any advice in the editing department. It is a step I have struggled many times to make, but I am really ready to try it.
 

TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,415
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
@Syrius I used to pants. Then one day I thought, hey, why not try plotting, and for me it was a game-changer. My particular style of autistic brain loved the structure that plotting created, and I could still have creative bursts. Seeing my story set up in scenes allowed me to move things around, combine scenes that really ought to be together, split one if it was better to put another scene between. I could see it all relatively cleanly. I could also see what came before and after major beats: Exactly where was the inciting incident, etc etc? Sometimes I have been so focused on the A story that I realise I have no sort of B line at all, and that comes out clearly on the cards.
Most important, I can write any scene I want when I want, without having to go from start to finish and without risking going off on some weird tangent that ultimately has no place in the story. Some times I don't want to face a scene that may be heavy in some way because my brain's not there today, so I'll instead go for an easier scene, and because I know the trajectory of the story, I have a fairly decent idea of what would precede the scene, and how to end the scene so what comes next flows naturally.
For the story I'm currently working on, I have it split into months (Its working title is Seven Months, so that's logical), but then I decided to make it neater and split each month into weeks (so a chapter is now called "Month 2 Week 3" etc). I wasn't completely happy with that, so split the weeks into smaller scenes that could either occur on the same day, or some other day within that week. I only realised that I needed to do this by looking over the initial scene cards.
Don't forget, however, that a scene doesn't need to be "necessary for the plot". It needs to be necessary for the story, and that's a slightly different creature. Also, you might not think a scene is necessary but when you have written it, you find it works perfectly tying this bit with that. I know there is advice out there that says, "cut any scene that doesn't advance the plot", but that advice, though valuable, can be taken to extreme. It might not advance the plot in itself, but it can set something up, create character depth and reader engagement. Like that other advice "show, don't tell". Sometimes, telling is necessary - it may be quicker, neater, cleaner.
I'd better stop here before I get too didactic!

As far as editing goes, don't do it until you have finished your story. When you can see the story as a written whole, you can see more easily where the flaws are, what you need to get from scene 27 to 28 smoothly, and if you actually need a scene 27B. For me, scene cards are a part of editing. They are the earliest form, and then once I've finished the story, I go back over my scene cards and move them, write others to fit the finished story, remove those that ultimately didn't work - reverse engineer, in a way. That again makes it easier than looking at a couple of hundred pages onscreen.

All that said, remember that this works for me. It might work for you; it might work for you, somewhat adapted; it might not work for you. But give it a go and find out.

I hope to get that built-in cupboard removed soon, but I'm keeping those doors!
 

Syrius

Well-known member
Valkyrie from The Sonoran Desert
Pronouns: she/her
Posts: 2,373
"Just moving forward with steel in my spine and glitter in the air!"
I used to pants. Then one day I thought, hey, why not try plotting, and for me it was a game-changer. My particular style of autistic brain loved the structure that plotting created, and I could still have creative bursts. Seeing my story set up in scenes allowed me to move things around, combine scenes that really ought to be together, split one if it was better to put another scene between. I could see it all relatively cleanly. I could also see what came before and after major beats: Exactly where was the inciting incident, etc etc? Sometimes I have been so focused on the A story that I realise I have no sort of B line at all, and that comes out clearly on the cards.

In the past, any time I tried to plot, it has always managed to discourage me from writing. I do know that I should try it again, but my ADHD brain keeps thinking "It didn't work then, so it can't work now" - totally a bad thought pattern.

Most important, I can write any scene I want when I want, without having to go from start to finish and without risking going off on some weird tangent that ultimately has no place in the story. Some times I don't want to face a scene that may be heavy in some way because my brain's not there today, so I'll instead go for an easier scene, and because I know the trajectory of the story, I have a fairly decent idea of what would precede the scene, and how to end the scene so what comes next flows naturally.

I did have one story that I did write out of order, hitting the scenes that I was most excited about, but I never managed to go back and add the connective tissue to tie it together. Technically, all three book/arcs of that story.

Don't forget, however, that a scene doesn't need to be "necessary for the plot". It needs to be necessary for the story, and that's a slightly different creature. Also, you might not think a scene is necessary but when you have written it, you find it works perfectly tying this bit with that. I know there is advice out there that says, "cut any scene that doesn't advance the plot", but that advice, though valuable, can be taken to extreme. It might not advance the plot in itself, but it can set something up, create character depth and reader engagement. Like that other advice "show, don't tell". Sometimes, telling is necessary - it may be quicker, neater, cleaner.

Yeah, plot != story. I do know this. Maybe I need to think of it more as "trimming the loose threads".

As far as editing goes, don't do it until you have finished your story. When you can see the story as a written whole, you can see more easily where the flaws are, what you need to get from scene 27 to 28 smoothly, and if you actually need a scene 27B.

So, that's a thing. Technically, I am not done with the story - there is still much to write. But I also feel like I finished a major arc, which is why I thought it might be okay to start revisions. I'll take your advice and I'll keep going. (I'll just leave myself a note or something about what change I think belongs at my current "end" point that is driving me crazy.) Lol, I guess it is now time to try non NaNo writing again. I always do better with a writing challenge to write against. Well, February 1st is right around the corner, so I'm going to try to figure out a challenge for myself to motivate me to write.

For me, scene cards are a part of editing. They are the earliest form, and then once I've finished the story, I go back over my scene cards and move them, write others to fit the finished story, remove those that ultimately didn't work - reverse engineer, in a way. That again makes it easier than looking at a couple of hundred pages onscreen.

This is exactly what I was thinking when I saw your cupboard full of cards. Such an awesome idea.

Thank you! I really appreciate you sharing your process.
 

TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,415
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
I went back this morning to delete the post, but @Syrius had already commented on it. Probably a good thing. I've got to get used to the idea that my opinions are just as valid as anyone else's. They may not be the same, they may not be seen as 'right', but they are valid. I've spent too many years being told otherwise and I really have to get out of the habit of believing that. The number of posts I have deleted...!
So I'm glad this one stood, and I'm glad someone found it of value.
:heart:
 

Sólveig

Well-known member
Pirate from Cabudare - Venezuela
Pronouns: She/Her
Posts: 3,437
"ᚨ Ars longa, vita brevis"
How many WIP do you have? And what stage are they at? Actual writing? Planning? Just a jotted-down idea, a skeleton with no flesh?

Right now I have 4 flash stories in queue plus one that's long; a novel for a challenge in April, and I'm currently laying my plans up for my next phone project... you know, like the one I finished before, but I hope to make it longer and more meaningful than the previous one.

The flash stories I need to draft them. The challenge is just an idea, and I want to have a schedule for my main character as I want everything to happen on schedule. The long story is already divided, but I don't know where to begin. And the phone project... the whole intention for the plot is done, but I require to make a shopping list of research and maybe use the snowflake method to see where I can go with it. I want to try at being a plotter with this one.

Fun fact: my phone's predictive text suggested me "laying my mom" while I typed this post.
 

TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,415
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
Fun fact: my phone's predictive text suggested me "laying my mom" while I typed this post.
"Predictive" text is scary! I turned mine off because I was beginning to wonder what sort of person my phone thought I was!

Good luck on the plotting. Is that something you don't generally do? Are you primarily a discovery writer?
 

Sólveig

Well-known member
Pirate from Cabudare - Venezuela
Pronouns: She/Her
Posts: 3,437
"ᚨ Ars longa, vita brevis"
"Predictive" text is scary! I turned mine off because I was beginning to wonder what sort of person my phone thought I was!

If this was the place where I publish my stories I wouldn't be scary, but rather on brand!

Good luck on the plotting. Is that something you don't generally do? Are you primarily a discovery writer?

I'm a plantser. The problem with that project in particular is that I only have the two final chapters "drafted" in my head, but how to get there isn't clear... and I just thought it would be good to start from that very ending.
 

TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,415
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
Different from me. I've just spent the last week creating characters, motivations, evolutions, potential scenarios, and an outline for the first book (and vague suggetions for the following four with potential for more later). It's fun and it's informative - every question that gets raised makes me need to find an answer that doesn't contravene the internal logic - but as a result, I'm itching to get to writing, but until I've got the scenes properly worked out... The first book is loosely planned from go to whoa, but because this is going to be a series, I have to make sure that things can follow on naturally. I simply couldn't do a thing like that pantsing. I don't think there's anything wrong either way, but since I started plotting, I've found that works best for me.
 
Mother of Dragons from Avenger's Tower
Pronouns: she/her ✡
Posts: 602
"Some things are worth rebuilding, like love sometimes. Some things are best left broken, like hearts sometimes. Growing up is knowing when to hold on, and knowing when its time to let go."

Moderator
I'm reaching the Peaks of Half-Wanting-To-Give-Up-For-Various-Possibly-Valid-Reasons.

Until now, all was fairly smooth going. But putting together chapter six is HARD. It's a big mess. It's all over the place. It needs serious reorganization. It needs serious rewriting. It even needs replotting, because there was a detail I was going to skip, realized belatedly just how important it is and that skipping it out changes the entire damn story, so in addition to doing everything else, I need to rework the chapter so that detail is included (but it's a highly sensitive topic, so I have to handle writing about it with delicacy and kid gloves, which is why it was originally to be simply skipped).

Also I realized I have a very unique problem in writing autobiographies: ALL OF MINE TAKES PLACE ONLINE. Which means that currently there are digital trails - if someone finds just one conversation online that matches one I describe in the book, the identities (or online accounts) of who's who will be fairly easy to suss out, even if I use pseudonyms. I mean, it would not be too hard at this point in time to simply wipe (most of) the conversations in question from the internet forever (or at least, make it VERY difficult to recover). I'd have to get back in touch with a former friend and convince her it's worth it for her to help me, and maybe talk to some other people I equally rather wouldn't. It's doable, but it's not guaranteed as it depends on other people's cooperation. So that's my weirdly specific issue that most people writing autobiographies don't really have to deal with (or do they?).
 

TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,415
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
@Princess Sarena Rose It is a problem. I'm looking at writing a highly fictionalised version of a life, keeping to the basics in order to tell the actual story but obfuscating individual occurences so there's no chance of defamation action. At least none of that is publicly known. Your situation is interesting. If you are billing it as YOUR autobiography, it would seem weird if things that people know about you aren't included. By posting things online that enable people easily to discern who the actors involved are, you've already crossed that line. If nobody objected when you posted, then it's not overly likely they'd object if you were to provide them with pseudonyms in that same incident in your book. Anyone who knows them, and you, may already have read about the incident online. Anyone who doesn't know them, or you, won't care who they really are. Additionally, although it may be your autobiography, you don't even have to use your real name - or anyone's real name. If you've always fantasised about being called Felicity, well, here's your chance!
 
Mother of Dragons from Avenger's Tower
Pronouns: she/her ✡
Posts: 602
"Some things are worth rebuilding, like love sometimes. Some things are best left broken, like hearts sometimes. Growing up is knowing when to hold on, and knowing when its time to let go."

Moderator
The issue is that I'm literally describing incidents that happened online. Normal conversations disappear into thin air, so if you write about them afterwards, no one can go back and figure out you left out a sentence or two to protect the other person's privacy. Online conversations can be preserved indefinitely or forever - so if anyone goes looking, they could find a preserved conversation online that matches up with one I write about in my book, or more than one, and boom, they have the place it all happened in, and the online personas of all the people involved. Nobody objected when it happened because they naturally assumed that the conversations and interactions would remain private. In a normal autobiography, you change names to circumvent the privacy issue, no one knows who's who, and it would take much more effort to reverse engineer who belongs to which pseudonym. This is an issue that's beginning to make me think that my project might be completely unfeasible. I can't hide too many details without fundamentally obscuring key details of the story altogether.
 

TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,415
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
It might be helpful to look at what these conversations represent. Determine how much of what was published online actually needs to be part of the narrative. Would some simple exposition regarding the context rather than the content suffice?
What I mean is, if the conversation were with Angela telling you she broke up with her long-time boyfriend Gary because she slept with Clive and Melanie at the same time, yeah, telling all that is pretty specific. But if you changed Angela to Primrose and just said that some relationships were really strangely complex, that might do it.
Or not.
Depending.
:)
 

TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,415
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
Here's something I've only just realised about my writing, and it made me wonder about other people's. Yours in particular. Yes, you reading this.
When you write, do your stories have a common theme or are they all different?
I've noticed that regardless of genre, whether it's action, psychological drama or sci-fi, all my stories have one common theme. Since I resumed writing in 2022. I'd not noticed it until I sat down yesterday and had a good think. So, what about yours?
 

Syrius

Well-known member
Valkyrie from The Sonoran Desert
Pronouns: she/her
Posts: 2,373
"Just moving forward with steel in my spine and glitter in the air!"
Despite all my greatest efforts, I always end up writing something with a romance. No matter if I started with aliens coming to Earth, a person trapped in a video game, or a person finding her magic, it always circles back to a pair of characters trying to find their way to each other.
 
Bard from Canada
Posts: 4,581
"Striving to be the change."

Moderator
When you write, do your stories have a common theme?
Sure. Everyone has a worldview. And every writer approaches their work from the POV of that worldview.

Classical writers, for instance, believed in preordination. So that shows up in their work. Oedipus murders his father and marries his mother because he was destined to do that. Sophocles' audiences believed in preordination too, so they accept this story. Me, I think Oedipus was an idiot. Dude knows it's been prophesied he'll murder his own father and marry his own mother. So he runs away from home, managing not to notice that there's no family resemblance between him and the couple who raised him. Then he murders an old guy he meets on the highway, over a petty dispute, no less. Then he shows up in a new town where he knows no one and immediately marries--wait for it--a recent widow who's clearly old enough to be his mother. How stupid are you Oedi? But classical audiences (and high school English teachers) ate that stuff up.

This one will be more controversial but: don't even get me started on The Lion King. The lion pride can only be happy and prosperous under the rule of Mufasa because he is the rightful ruler of the land by virtue of birthright. Even though Mufasa is obviously kind of a dope, and his younger brother Scar much more intelligent (and OMG Disney: "Scar"? Really? In 1994 we're still going with "facial disfigurement" = "evil"?) Scar cannot possibly be a good leader because he's not the rightful heir to the lion throne. So when Simba runs away (because, like dear old Dad, he's gullible and pretty much a dope) the pride falls on hard times under Scar's rule. Then Nala--who we've seen was both smarter and stronger than Simba since they were wee little cubs--cannot possibly save the lion pride from their despair. Not even working with all of the other lions, who've been a part of the pride since day one and know what's going on and presumably share Nala's desire for things to be better. But no. They are, all of them, without exception, completely and utterly without any ability to save themselves. Their only hope is for Nala to convince the idiot Simba (who's been spending his days singing "hakuna matata" with a meerkat and a warthog, obviously having developed no skills whatsoever that would make him a good candidate to lead a lion pride) to return and be their saviour. Because why exactly? Simba and Simba alone can be a good king to the lions because he happens to be the firstborn son of the previous good king. Give me a frakking break.

I do not believe in preordination. So you will never see anything happen to any of my characters "because it was fate". Never.
I don't believe we're 100% in control of what happens to us either. Everyone is affected by circumstances which are beyond their control, and certain achievements are obviously easier for some people than for others as a result. (e.g.: Not to name any names, but: if your Daddy gives you millions of dollars, it doesn't require any skill on your part in anything whatsoever for you to end up financially wealthy.) But we all get to choose how we play the hand we were dealt, and those choices have consequences too.

I do not believe that an accident of birth makes anyone better (or worse) suited to lead than anyone else. I don't think an accident of birth makes anyone better (or worse) suited to be a slave either. One's opportunities to rise (or be consigned) to a specific role in life are obviously greater or lesser as a result of the circumstances of one's birth. But accepting birthright (for any role) as being not only inevitable but actually righteous is completely and utterly bonkers and leads to bad outcomes both for humanity and the entire ecosystem of the planet on which we live. As a result, you will never, ever see me write chosen one stories.

You might not read my work and immediately think "rule by birthright is bad" and/or "our choices matter" is the primary theme of any of it. But those themes are definitely there in everything I write.
 
Bard from Canada
Posts: 4,581
"Striving to be the change."

Moderator
I definitely should not have gone down the Lion King rabbit hole, because there is so much in that movie that I find offensive. But given that I have gone there, I cannot depart without mentioning that the whole "hyenas are evil because they are hyenas" aspect of the plot is blatant racism. (This particular trope unfortunately shows up in a lot of both fantasy and science fiction. I abhor it.)
 

Syrius

Well-known member
Valkyrie from The Sonoran Desert
Pronouns: she/her
Posts: 2,373
"Just moving forward with steel in my spine and glitter in the air!"
But accepting birthright (for any role) as being not only inevitable but actually righteous is completely and utterly bonkers and leads to bad outcomes both for humanity and the entire ecosystem of the planet on which we live.
Hey, you just helped me put my finger on why I am unhappy with my story. I had one character working through life, earning everything she's got and the other was unhappily accepting a birthright that I was forcing upon him and trying to make him accept. (Don't ask me why I thought it was good idea - I have no defense other than I thought it was where the character needed to go.) It is not in the nature of the character to fall into that role, nor should he because his father is a tyrant and the system is untenable. He can't and shouldn't be expected to do this. I need to find another way for him.

:break: *Cue furious scribbling in my notebook* So many ideas right now.


I don't particularly care for preordination either. I do like it when I'm reading a book and the preordination turns out to be something else or breakable and I particularly like it when the characters struggle against it. But I feel like it's a loss of character agency and I usually avoid it in my writing.
 
Last edited:
Bard from Canada
Posts: 4,581
"Striving to be the change."

Moderator
I don't particularly care for preordination either. I do like it when I'm reading a book and the preordination turns out to be something else or breakable and I particularly like it when the characters struggle against it. But I feel like it's a loss of character agency and I usually avoid it in my writing.
Yeah. I don't think preordination is popular amongst modern readers/audiences. (At least not in the west.) Fighting to break free from a fate one's circumstances appear to be attempting to force one into is a struggle many people resonate with. But the assumption that any such attempts can only be futile is, as you say, a massive loss of character agency. And most of us don't want to read about characters who have no agency.
 

TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,415
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
@Laura Rainbow Dragon How tempting it is to go down those rabbit holes, though! I don't tend to do it with movies, but I do it a lot with novels. I hate "Gone Girl" because of the so many plot holes that were simply glossed over, and how at the end, Nick goes back to Amy and I'm thinking "Why?! Do you want to spend the rest of your life with a murderess, a woman who tried to frame you for your murder, just waiting for the other shoe to drop? What do you think is going to happen if you piss her off again, you twit?" But he had to because he was forced to by the plot. And how easy would it have been for the police, should they have chosen, to investigate whether or not Nick had really made those purchases? Why were Amy's two previous victims completely discounted because they both had "mental illnesses" even though they had no relation to each other and they told a similar story, not only to each other, but also to Nick? I could continue. Come on! Load of bollocks.
*takes a breath*
That aside, so @Laura Rainbow Dragon your theme would be something like people taking responsibility for the trajectories of their own lives? And yeah, Oedipus was a bit of a dick. Sure, Jocasta might have been a looker, even in her 40s, but given the prophesy, why would he even consider marrying any woman who was even that tiny bit older than him? Because the plot forced him to. It is still a cracker of a story, though.
And @Syrius is yours two characters finding each other despite their differences, or two people needing to complete themselves, or companionship is the prime goal, or love will find a way, or...? All of those options are different themes. I see romance as more a genre than a theme. I acknowledge that other people might not see it that way - this is simply my opinion.
Thank you for your responses. I'm finding this all very interesting, and it has made me look at my writing slightly differently, recognising how my own life experiences - not simply worldview or opinions, because I think they are more deliberate and often in some way chosen - has influenced it.
 

Syrius

Well-known member
Valkyrie from The Sonoran Desert
Pronouns: she/her
Posts: 2,373
"Just moving forward with steel in my spine and glitter in the air!"
And @Syrius is yours two characters finding each other despite their differences, or two people needing to complete themselves, or companionship is the prime goal, or love will find a way, or...? All of those options are different themes. I see romance as more a genre than a theme. I acknowledge that other people might not see it that way - this is simply my opinion.
You are right, I was vague. It really is more of a genre. I think that my main point is that I always end up with a romance subplot (I vary here, usually companionship or love will find away). Not that I mind, I like it when my characters find some happiness in the tough times and the darkness that I throw their way.
 
Mother of Dragons from Avenger's Tower
Pronouns: she/her ✡
Posts: 602
"Some things are worth rebuilding, like love sometimes. Some things are best left broken, like hearts sometimes. Growing up is knowing when to hold on, and knowing when its time to let go."

Moderator
I feel the need to drop in and just say that I finally got chapter five organized.

This is just a quick update post.

Because chapter five was a HUGE challenge to organize. It was super messy, needed to be rewritten a bunch, needed stuff added, recontextualized, all that. It took weeks to sort through all the material and make it into a coherent, chronological story.

And I think I did a very, very reasonable job for a first organized draft of the chapter.

It needs a TON more work obviously, but that's not a job for now. Time to move on and whip chapter six into shape.

(There are fourteen chapters total, plus some prologues and epilogues and stuff, so I'm almost halfway through this organdized draft.)

Gonna read through it later and see how it feels to me, then move on to chapter six.
 
Bard from Canada
Posts: 4,581
"Striving to be the change."

Moderator
Thanks, @Laura Rainbow Dragon But I decided that nobody needed to hear/read my skiting so I deleted the post. That's something I'm still working on...
It was a good post. Helpful for other writers. And it gave us an opportunity to cheer you on--which is something we all want to do! Why delete it?
 

TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,415
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
@Laura Rainbow Dragon When you've been told for years that your opinions don't matter and that generally they're wrong anyway, it's difficult to lost that. The post did stay up for about 12 hours, which was an improvement because sometimes they barely get to stay for two! The number of posts I've written, posted briefly, and then deleted...
Perhaps it's still very much a feeling that I'm bragging, and that's not polite. Or even that I'm saying things that everyone knows and therefore don't need saying. Or that horrible (and indocrinated) belief that I'm wrong and just making a fool of myself.
I'm trying very hard to break away from this, but it's not been two years yet and there was a lot of damage.
But I was proud of myself. Am proud. Discovering that WHY made everything else fall neatly into place. My brain had been working behind the scenes with this series, without bothering to tell me, so even as I was writing and knew where I was heading, I'd suddenly realise things like, "Oh, this links to that part way back", and I'd think how clever I was to make that connection, not really aware that my brain had made the connection months ago and was only now revealling it to me. I like to think that the same sort of thing will happen for my readers (when I get some).
I still have 64 handwritten pages to transcribe. Yesterday I managed to do 14 pages, which was 4,400 words. It's a bore but I don't need to think because this is not revision; it's simply getting the document into digital format, so with the disruption that's going to be happening over the next couple of weeks, there's no big deal there.
Once it's in, I'll be turning my attention to my series bible. These are things that carry over from book to book, idiosyncratic phrases, habits, likes. So, for example, in book 1 we learn that one character is partial to rocky road chocolate. In book 3, she's dead, and her unaware fiancé walks into the hospital carrying a block of rocky road chocolate. In one book, a character says she's partial to tortellini alla panna, and in another, she's in a restaurant and says they make an excellent tortellini alla panna. Essentially it's all about keeping characters consistent. Not rigid, but if someone in allergic to cheese in book 1, you probably don't want to have him enjoying a fondue in book 4. I read one series which was pretty good, but around book 8, the girlfriend suddenly had a mother (whereas previously she'd been looking after her family because her mother had died when she was young), and a sister (previously she only had 3 younger brothers), and that just so annoyed me. And then in about book 10, one character who'd killed someone in book 8, was said to have just killed his first man, but it wasn't his first - unless the author completely ignored book 8 and quite frankly I couldn't blame him. It wasn't good. Avoid that by making sure you have a series bible!
And from now on, I hereby promise that I won't delete another post to this thread for at least 24 hours. :cool: You might come to regret that, though...
 
Bard from Canada
Posts: 4,581
"Striving to be the change."

Moderator
I'm trying very hard to break away from this, but it's not been two years yet and there was a lot of damage.
I understand.
(I used to think there was something mentally wrong with people who showed an interest in being friends with me. As in: "What is wrong with you? Can't you see that I'm evil? Why would you want to be friends with an evil person?")
Props to you for doing the work necessary to break free from harmful indoctrination. It's not easy. But it is worth it.
:hug:

And from now on, I hereby promise that I won't delete another post to this thread for at least 24 hours. :cool:
:approve:
 

Sólveig

Well-known member
Pirate from Cabudare - Venezuela
Pronouns: She/Her
Posts: 3,437
"ᚨ Ars longa, vita brevis"
Here's something I've only just realised about my writing, and it made me wonder about other people's. Yours in particular. Yes, you reading this.
When you write, do your stories have a common theme or are they all different?
I've noticed that regardless of genre, whether it's action, psychological drama or sci-fi, all my stories have one common theme. Since I resumed writing in 2022. I'd not noticed it until I sat down yesterday and had a good think. So, what about yours?

Two things: eroticism and liberty. Even before I made the switch to erotica, there were always moments of fanservice, nudity, or spicy romance that always popped. I just never considered to go full into erotica back then.

Now, aside of the limits of transgression (a very Bataille thing), libertinism plagues my writing a lot, both in the form of hedonism and pyrrhonism, as well as absolute abolition of morality. My poetry values this a lot, and is always dancing on the edge of obscenity. There's also elements of shadow work in my current stories, and I doubled down on social and political satire, which was a default since the very beginning.
 

TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,415
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
Okay. So last Thursday I finished the rewriting of a story. Not the editing, that's yet to come. I took the story, tore it apart, kept the bits I wanted, tossed the rest, and rewrote the new form of it. I wrote it by hand. Up until I recommenced writing this a few weeks ago, I'd diligently transcribed each day's writing onto the computer for later editing. I stopped doing that, so when I finally finished, I had 85 pages to transcribe. What a total drag! But I got to it, and it was going okay but slowly and I felt that this was taking away from time I could be spending actually writing. Anyway, builders came again today. I'd say, at the crack of dawn, but it hadn't cracked yet! I got up at 6 and the "boys" arrived at 7 (Dawn came a bit later, around 7:15). I got to work around the same time the boys did. There was nothing else for me to do today. I couldn't read because a) my chair was currently out-of-bounds, and b) too noisy. I couldn't watch YouTube or anything because, ditto, particularly the noise, so I just got my head down and typed and typed and typed. I did get up from time to time but basically I sat for about 7 hours. I got the last 32 pages transcribed, 11,149 words in total. The whole novel is around 94,000 words, a much mroe manageable size than the previous 135,000! I couldn't have edited that down - it had to be completely re-written. So that's done now. It'll sit quietly for a but while I work on the last two books of the series. Then I'll have a bit of a break and finish a standalone I started last year, before I return to the whole series and begin editing the books. I'm looking forward to all of that.
But I have decided for a while I shan't be writing by hand because the transcription is a bore. Plus I write faster when typing. The brain works at the same speed; sometimes hand speed was the bottleneck. I'll write my scene cards by hand (because I'm a plotter) but type directly from my brain.
So there you go. And I shan't even delete this post!
 

TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,415
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
I did warn you that you might regret my not deleting my posts because here's another one!

I had intended to go over the scene cards I'd written up for book 4 (in the file marked "Book 4") but I had to sort something from book 3 out first. While I was doing so, I thought about a scene that I was sure I'd written but I couldn't find it. Thought I must just have thought I'd written it. Oh well. But today, going through the file, I was sure I'd written a particular scene. I could see it in my mind, not as though I'd merely written a scene card, or even just scratched down a brief outline. I simply knew I'd written it. But it wasn't in the file. Then I found another file marked "Book 4" but this one had that brackets and the first word was the name of a major character. I'd done this with the previous books too, except for the re-written first book on which I actually bestowed its title. But that scene wasn't there either. Totally confused. Took me an hour of searching, and then I found another file. This one was actually the name of the book. I hadn't even thought to look for that because I didn't think I had done anything much on it, but there it was! Yeah, I felt so stupid! And unlike the "book 4" files, the Brain Drain didn't have only 20,000 words of scene ideas and snippets of dialogue in it, but 35,000 words. But more importantly, I'd actually begun the novel. I was about 3/4 of the way through - or 59,000 words! And I had forgotten that!! I could hardly believe it. I'd spent a couple of days going through 29 scene cards - I knew I needed more than that - and here was an almost completed novel. So I felt embarrassed and cross with myself, as well as intensely relieved (I hadn't actually lost my mind, after all, plus book 4 was nearly done).
So the moral of the story is - if you change the name of your novel, but you don't want to get rid of the original versions (I don't), then mark them as no longer in service so you don't waste your time and end up feeling like a right twat! :cool:
 
Mother of Dragons from Avenger's Tower
Pronouns: she/her ✡
Posts: 602
"Some things are worth rebuilding, like love sometimes. Some things are best left broken, like hearts sometimes. Growing up is knowing when to hold on, and knowing when its time to let go."

Moderator
I'm legit just randomly posting nothing because I haven't been feeling well (look it's a bad cold but I'm easily dissuaded from being productive) and I need motivation to really recommit myself to my book and stop getting so easily thrown off track.

What's everyone been working on?

Favourite writing tip?
 

TopNotch

Well-known member
Ranger from Australia
Posts: 3,415
"Motivation is temporary. Discipline is forever."
I can't say that this is my favourite writing tip, but it might just help you have a bit of fun and get back into the mood.
Write a really good first line.
That's it. Just one line. Not of any story you're writing or intending on writing. Any genre. Just a first line that you think would catch someone's eye. Don't think of a story to go with it, just be completely random. Something like, for example
Julie sat down with a sigh, checked her To-Do list and noted with pleasure that she'd completed everything except the last task: Kill Someone.
Or maybe you don't naturally go in that sort of direction...
Anyway, give it a go. It's a bit of fun.
 
Mother of Dragons from Avenger's Tower
Pronouns: she/her ✡
Posts: 602
"Some things are worth rebuilding, like love sometimes. Some things are best left broken, like hearts sometimes. Growing up is knowing when to hold on, and knowing when its time to let go."

Moderator
I can't say that this is my favourite writing tip, but it might just help you have a bit of fun and get back into the mood.
Write a really good first line.
That's it. Just one line. Not of any story you're writing or intending on writing. Any genre. Just a first line that you think would catch someone's eye. Don't think of a story to go with it, just be completely random. Something like, for example
Julie sat down with a sigh, checked her To-Do list and noted with pleasure that she'd completed everything except the last task: Kill Someone.
Or maybe you don't naturally go in that sort of direction...
Anyway, give it a go. It's a bit of fun.
Thanks! It helped. I ended up writing a little poem out of it for a piece I'm working on, then I went right back to my book.

I edited down chapter one like six pages, which is a big deal coz my book is like a thousand and needs to be well under five hundred pages, so every bit that goes helps.

And onward, onward, onward, I guess. I have only two more chapters to put in order, and then it's all editing from there. I think I can do this. It'll be hard sometimes, but I think I can do it...
 
Back
Top